Fact-checking Breitbart's "SAN DIEGO POLICE CHIEF: WE CAN DISARM AMERICANS WITHIN A GENERATION"

In the following piece, Breitbart's AWR Hawkins makes a serious claim:

AWR Hawkins (2013:Jan.28). SAN DIEGO POLICE CHIEF: WE CAN DISARM AMERICANS WITHIN A GENERATION," Breitbart.com

Because I'm always wary of Breitbart as a source, I always follow it back at least one level.

Hawkins (the author) cites the following article as his source for the claim:

Kimberly Dvorak (2013:Jan.17). "San Diego top cop boasts 'we broke the NRA' as some chiefs aim for gun control," Washington Guardian.

I did not find the "disarm" claim that Hawkins alleged; the closest I came was this:

[San Diego Police Chief William] Lansdowne suggested the Newtown, Conn., massacre may have undercut the gun lobby’s power and opened the door for new gun control legislation. “We broke the NRA,” Lansdowne boasted in an off camera portion of an interview with San Diego 6 and the Washington Guardian. When asked to expound, he demurred.

So... not only did the 'boast' happen off-camera (convenient), the interview was with San Diego 6 and the Washington Guardian (Brietbart's source).  A joint interview?  That's interesting... and probably a bit unusual.  But file that away for later... we know what the WG's take on the interview is... let's see what SD6 has to say.

I finally found the SD6 piece via this article at conservative site CNS news:

Kimberly Dvorak (2013:Jan.16). "White House, Congress Create Gun-Buying Frenzy After Newtown," San Diego 6.

Chief Lansdowne, who plays an active role in the western region of the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) association [my note: IACP is an historically anti-gun organization], said it may take a generation but guns will eventually be taken off the streets through new laws like Senator Diane Feinstein’s proposed assault weapons ban legislation. Some of the items his organization is addressing include; a ban on assault weapons, restricting high-capacity magazines, closing loopholes that allow firearm sales between private owners without background checks, and implementing much stricter background checks by using a comprehensive database. 

San Diego City’s top cop focused on grandfathering a law provision contained in Senator Feinstein’s legislation that would allow current lawful firearms owners to keep their assault weapons, but said that firearms would be destroyed upon the owner’s death and the new law would no longer allow firearms to be passed down to heirs and relatives.

First of all, do you see what I see?  Dvorak is the author of both the Washington Guardian piece and the San Diego 6 piece.  That explains the question of the "joint" interview, but it also means there's only one person to verify Chief Lansdowne's quote... Dvorak.

Secondly, this is not what I would call "hard" confiscation (i.e. door-to-door), but "soft" confiscation... one that happens over time, via attrition.  That's not to say "soft" confiscation is (in the long-run) any less tyrannical than "hard" confiscation.

This article (also tackling Chief Lansdowne's alleged comments) at IJ Review makes a good, hard point regarding the tyranny of "soft" confiscation:

As far as the left’s patronizing objection to gun control opponents that, “no one’s coming to get your guns,” the San Diego Police Chief William Lansdowne has taken the unrealistic position that all guns can be taken off the streets withing a “generation.”

However, Chief Lansdowne isn't after "all guns," as the Daily Kos site 'mostly debunks' this claim (though DK claims complete debunking), but 'only' some guns.

WCWatch (2013:Feb.03). "Roger Hedgecock says police chief aims to "disarm Americans;" then complains of smear," Daily Kos.

Incidentally, all articles to be found, whether on the "Washington Guardian", the jokey Examiner.com, or the local news station Sandiego6.com, are versions of the same article written by a certain Kimberly Dvorak. Dvorak has been accused of plagiarism and other fabrications while penning right wing pieces in conjuction with the anti-immigration extremists the San Diego Minutemen. And about the same time that Hedgecock was tweeting his defense of the story, his own station was debunking it (with Lansdowne clarifying that he was referring to assault weapons).

The DK writer provides a link to the station's debunking (which, presumably, also contains Chief Lansdowne's less-than-comforting 'clarification').  As it is in podcast form, I have not yet had time to listen to it.

Anna Good & [Show Producer] Mike Slater (2013:Feb.01). "SDPD Chief William Lansdowne," 760 KFMB AM.

According to a headline on Breitbart.com, San Diego Police Chief, William Lansdowne said "We can disarm Americans within a generation".

Well, that is not exactly what he said...

However, he did say some pretty inflammatory comments on the show this morning!

Follow Mike Slater and listen to the interview

If anyone finds a transcript, please let me know.  If not, I will update in the future.

The Confiscation Files

"No one wants to take your guns."  (And when they do, it's) "You can keep what you already have."  (And when you can't, we hear) "The government will never go door-to-door collecting guns."

Only it's already happened in DC, per an investigative journalist and former DC criminal prosecutor:

A Gun Ban That Misfired: What I saw as a prosecutor in Washington, D.C., makes me wary of strict firearms laws

The Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department also waged a war on firearms by creating a special Gun Recovery Unit in 1995. The campaign meant that officers were obliged to spend time searching otherwise law-abiding citizens. That same year, the department launched a crackdown called Operation Cease Fire to rid the District of illegal firearms. But after four months, officers had confiscated only 282 guns out of the many thousands in the city. 

Civil liberties were endangered. Legislative changes empowered judges to hold gun suspects in pretrial detention without bond for up to 100 days, and efforts were made to enact curfews and seize automobiles found to contain firearms. In 1997, Police Chief Charles Ramsey disbanded the unit so that he could assign more uniformed officers to patrol the streets instead, but the police periodically tried other gun crackdowns over the next decade—with little effect.

Then there's the rest of the stuff at the federal level, such as this:

NIJ memo shows new gun laws can only 'work' with registration, confiscation 

[A recent NIJ memo states:] Since assault weapons are not a major contributor to US gun homicide [interesting admission right off the bat] and the existing stock of guns is large, an assault weapon ban is unlikely to have an impact on gun violence. If coupled with a gun buyback and no exemptions [meaning no "grandfather clause"] then it could be effective.

An exemption for previously owned magazines would nearly eliminate any impact. The program would need to be coupled with an extensive buyback of existing large capacity magazines. With an exemption the impact of the restrictions would only be felt when the magazines degrade or when they no longer are compatible with guns in circulation. This would take decades to realize. 

Effectiveness depends on the ability to reduce straw purchasing, requiring gun registration and an easy gun transfer process.

 And this:

Eliot Engel reintroduces his perennial confiscatory gun ban bill

Additionally, when looking at the text of the bill, the only exemptions are the government's hired muscle (law enforcement and military), manufacturers (making it for said government muscle), and those doing the testing to determine if the gun or ammunition in question is yet another "cop killer." No "grandfather clause," in other words. If you own a Five-seveN, or ammo for it, or if you own any of the scores of millions of other handguns that can defeat Level IIa armor, you are a felon, unless you surrender them. There is not even any provision for compensation.

And not just in the federal enclave of DC, and not just at the federal level... a number of states have a very recent history with confiscation.


Washington, California, and Missouri:

Gun ban bills in three states, including Wash., could make citizens criminals 

Democrat lawmakers in three states, including Washington, have introduced legislation that would ban possession of so-called “assault weapons” with criminal penalties under certain circumstances, and also provide for their surrender to law enforcement.

In California, according to the San Jose Mercury News, Democrats are pushing a package of measures “that would regulate and tax ammunition sales and consider taking the state's 166,000 registered assault weapons from their owners.” 

New York:

The "Empire" State, indeed:

Eliot Engel reintroduces his perennial confiscatory gun ban bill

Additionally, when looking at the text of the bill, the only exemptions are the government's hired muscle (law enforcement and military), manufacturers (making it for said government muscle), and those doing the testing to determine if the gun or ammunition in question is yet another "cop killer." No "grandfather clause," in other words. If you own a Five-seveN, or ammo for it, or if you own any of the scores of millions of other handguns that can defeat Level IIa armor, you are a felon, unless you surrender them. There is not even any provision for compensation.

Oh, but that was from a Rep. whose bill has no chance of passing!  Then what about:

NY Democrat pleads with Republican not to share document proposing confiscation of guns: A New York Assemblyman has pleaded with his Republican colleague not to release a list of Democrat proposals on gun control that seek to undermine the 2nd Amendment

But if Republican Assemblyman Steve McLaughlin is to be believed, the New York State Democrats would have gone further if they could have. Much, much further. 

In a video posted to his Facebook page, McLaughlin has shared the information of a 'secret' Democrat proposal not simply to make the purchasing of the crudely monikered 'assault weapons' illegal in New York, but also to engage in a mass confiscation programme, removing Americans' weapons from their possession. 

McLaughlin writes: 

"Here it is. This is the video where I was asked to keep the Democrat proposals for the NY SAFE Act away from the public. This list was given to me by a colleague and it is not confidential."

Normally I would not believe such wild claims, absent the actual document.  However, his Democratic colleague's on-record pleading to not release the document makes it noteworthy... especially when combined with other recent goings-on in New York.

Such as this:

Police Wonder If They’ll Need To Confiscate Assault Weapons In Event Of Ban 

Amid talk of reinstating the assault weapons ban that expired eight years ago, police departments nationwide are thinking of ways to confiscate such weapons.

As WCBS 880’s Marla Diamond reported, among the departments considering taking action is the NYPD. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said if Congress were to reinstate the ban, police are wondering whether it will be their responsibility to confiscate them.

“I think that is a big, big question,” Kelly said. “Do you engage in a buyback?” 

Kelly said the NYPD’s existing gun buyback has been successful. 

“We’re up to about in two years, about 8500 weapons now, and that’s a significant number,” Kelly said. 

But Kelly said with hundreds of millions of guns out there, buybacks are just one small part of curbing gun violence.

Before you write this off as taking Commissioner Kelly out of context, consider this context, via the NY Times:

Cuomo Says He’ll Outline Gun Proposal Next Month

In the interview, [Governor] Cuomo did not offer specifics about the measures he might propose, but, while discussing assault weapons, he said: “Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it.”

And before you dismiss it as a misquote or mischaracterization or something... The Blaze has the audio (which is also on YouTube).


Illinois:

Just like NIJ, IL state rep. says magazine bans useless without confiscation (Photos) 

Rabidly anti-gun Illinois State Representative Mike Zalewski (D, of course, and Chicago area, of course) agrees. His Amendment #10 to "gun banner Christmas wish list gun ban bill," HB 1156, would both ban 11-round and larger magazines, and demand that heretofore legally owned ones be surrendered, on pain of at least a Class A misdemeanor. 

And that's how Zalewski says it has to be, according to the Illinois Review: 

"There can be no grandfather clause on this," he said to those requesting an amendment, "because there are no identity numbers on these clips." If he allowed grandfathering the magazines, he said he would lose votes from those from which he had already garnered support.

California:

Bill to seize registered assault weapons dead, author says 

One of the most controversial gun-control bills introduced in California this year — a move to seize the 166,000 registered assault weapons grandfathered in under the state's ban — is dead, its author said Thursday. 

When Assemblyman Rob Bonta, D-Oakland, introduced AB174 in January, it was designed to declare the Legislature's intent to end all "grandfather clauses" allowing ownership of assault weapons and large-capacity magazines. 

But on Tuesday, he gutted and amended the bill to address public-school health centers instead. 

Coincidentally, it was the same day that U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced he won't include Sen. Dianne Feinstein's proposed reinstatement of the federal assault weapons ban in the gun-control bill he brings to the floor. 

Bonta said Thursday that he came to realize his proposal was a nonstarter. 

"It would be extremely expensive, for one — if you were going to take back guns that were grandfathered in, you would have to provide market compensation for them," he said. "I didn't think that made the most sense from a fiscal perspective." 

Australia in 1996 and 1997 bought back about 640,000 newly banned semi-automatic rifles, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns at an estimated cost of at least $320 million. There was no registry to work from, however, and by some estimates as many as 40 percent of gun owners didn't comply with that mandatory buyback. 

Bonta also said he was keenly aware of the gun lobby's assertion that any state or national registration of firearms is merely a prelude to confiscation — something his bill actually pursued. 

"I didn't want to have a bill that plays into that argument," he said.

But don't think they give up so easily!

California again proves that purpose of registration is confiscation 

[California Attorney General Kamala] Harris is so proud of California's gun confiscation jihad, that she has written to Vice President "Double Barrel Joe" Biden, recommending a similar program at the federal level.

The Brady Campaign, which awards California "extra credit" for its gun registry-abetted confiscation program, has nevertheless argued that the notion that registration leads to confiscation is a "paranoid myth" of the "gun lobby"

And something of an update:

California grabs guns and warns residents they’re on their own in next big quake

“The state would then use that money for a program that confiscates firearms from people who are no longer legally allowed to own them due to a criminal conviction, mental illness or court order.”

My friend Kenny (Chair of his county's Democratic Party) maintains that confiscation "is not a majority opinion even among Democrats. That is a fringe view."

To that I would say:
No One Wants to Ban or Confiscate Guns huh? These Quotes from Anti Gun Leaders Say Otherwise



What about the claim that all of this worry about additional gun laws eventually leading to gun registration, and registration eventually leading to confiscation is just tin-foil hat, conspiracy-theory nonsense?


via St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner Kurt Hofmann:

The 'slippery slope' of 'gun control' is clearly very real, but not the point

If we must make the slippery slope argument (and that argument does have some value--for pointing out to hunters who don't care about AR-15s that the next step will be banning their scoped bolt-action hunting rifles as scary "sniper rifles," for example), we need to stop pointing to a total, outright, confiscatory ban as the end point.

via National Gun Rights Examiner David Codrea:

Brady Campaign promoting gun recall as solution to violence is nuts 

[article compares quotes from HCI website ("NRA Myth 10") with quotes from HCI founder Pete Shields]

And also see:

Think government mass murder for 'gun control' can't happen here? It already has 

[article examines Battle of Wounded Knee, etc]

There's also the recent historical example of New Orleans, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.



Also, before you tell me I've missed the Breitbart piece that exposed San Diego Police Chief, first read my almost-complete debunking of it.

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